I want the kind of anti-capitalist feminist that lifts everyone up! My partner and I were just talking about how what’s good for folks with marginalized identities tends to be good for everyone (except the folks at the very, very top who would have to be taxed to pay for an actual safety net, but wouldn’t even miss the $$) and wouldn’t it be nice if we could all just have healthcare and UBI.
Loved this piece 👏🏼👏🏼 thank you for sharing this wisdom. Late-stage capitalism may try to distract us and cloud our judgment, but a unified collective is bound to be more powerful than a select few. The type of feminism you cite seems to relate more to upholding neoliberalism than trying something new.
Def tend to agree on your point that simply having a woman at the top may not necessitate a healthier culture change. I think there are situations where a woman may just take on the traditional ‘masculine’ asshole qualities or even maintain that attitude even more strongly to prove you deserve that spot. I’d rather see ‘feminine’ qualities emphasized in a corporate setting. Whether it’s a man leading that culture or a woman or ideally both. But from the perspective of the woman who got to that spot, it’s not that easy to argue against the notion that however she got there, countless men have been there and much of them not really deserved. Representation matters as well, and women having the license to be a part of the range of all levels of society (whether a good or bad leader) might matter too. I am interested in a society promoting more ‘feminist’ attributes’ though.
Omg and YAY YOU CITE “FEMINISM FOR THE 99%”!! My son gave me that book recently—ka-bam! It’s excellent! (We did a radio show on it, but not a podcast.) I love like-minded men. 😊
Yesss! Thank you for this! Have you read JJ Bola’s book “Mask Off”? You two are great allies! (We interviewed him-check out our podcast on men and masculinity-you two resonate.)
To your point about nodding along and being an “ally” — during my first couple years of university, I really absorbed the message that “men should shut up and listen,” that there’s enough specifically white men talking in the world, and effectively, I had better be the best to deserve success, because otherwise I’m taking up a seat that should have gone to a more deserving woman/non-binary/person of colour/etc.
The way I absorbed the messages going around at the time (~2017) is my own baggage, but lately I’ve been trying to find my voice again after suppressing it for years. It’s been toxic and it can lead to not really believing what you’re nodding along with. I hadn’t given myself the chance to decide if I actually agreed with these positions because I wanted to be a Good Man.
Now I’m trying to let that go and figure out what I actually believe, grounded in my values and not guilt or shame.
That’s all a long way of saying, I agree that men need to be part of feminism in more than just a nodding-along-capacity. Show men how feminism aligns with their values and give them a place to feel like they can talk about ideas and advocate beyond just repeating lines. Show us theirs place on the team where we can have a say too.
The implicit message in a lot of zero-sum feminism as I’ve heard it is “men are trash and the source of all that is wrong with the world, therefore you should give up your privilege somehow and let women do the talking.” That’s not a great way to get men on board. We’ll have an easier time creating an equal world if it’s not presented as such an us-versus-them.
“men should shut up and listen,” is a deeply flawed message because the men who need to shut up won’t listen to it and the men who listen are the ones who least deserve to be told to shut up.
I want the kind of anti-capitalist feminist that lifts everyone up! My partner and I were just talking about how what’s good for folks with marginalized identities tends to be good for everyone (except the folks at the very, very top who would have to be taxed to pay for an actual safety net, but wouldn’t even miss the $$) and wouldn’t it be nice if we could all just have healthcare and UBI.
Yes yes yes!!!
Loved this piece 👏🏼👏🏼 thank you for sharing this wisdom. Late-stage capitalism may try to distract us and cloud our judgment, but a unified collective is bound to be more powerful than a select few. The type of feminism you cite seems to relate more to upholding neoliberalism than trying something new.
Yes!!! That’s exactly what it’s doing.
Def tend to agree on your point that simply having a woman at the top may not necessitate a healthier culture change. I think there are situations where a woman may just take on the traditional ‘masculine’ asshole qualities or even maintain that attitude even more strongly to prove you deserve that spot. I’d rather see ‘feminine’ qualities emphasized in a corporate setting. Whether it’s a man leading that culture or a woman or ideally both. But from the perspective of the woman who got to that spot, it’s not that easy to argue against the notion that however she got there, countless men have been there and much of them not really deserved. Representation matters as well, and women having the license to be a part of the range of all levels of society (whether a good or bad leader) might matter too. I am interested in a society promoting more ‘feminist’ attributes’ though.
Omg and YAY YOU CITE “FEMINISM FOR THE 99%”!! My son gave me that book recently—ka-bam! It’s excellent! (We did a radio show on it, but not a podcast.) I love like-minded men. 😊
It’s so good! I read it in a group back when it came out and it opened my mind so much :)
Yesss! Thank you for this! Have you read JJ Bola’s book “Mask Off”? You two are great allies! (We interviewed him-check out our podcast on men and masculinity-you two resonate.)
I haven’t! And I’ll check out the podcast episode :)
To your point about nodding along and being an “ally” — during my first couple years of university, I really absorbed the message that “men should shut up and listen,” that there’s enough specifically white men talking in the world, and effectively, I had better be the best to deserve success, because otherwise I’m taking up a seat that should have gone to a more deserving woman/non-binary/person of colour/etc.
The way I absorbed the messages going around at the time (~2017) is my own baggage, but lately I’ve been trying to find my voice again after suppressing it for years. It’s been toxic and it can lead to not really believing what you’re nodding along with. I hadn’t given myself the chance to decide if I actually agreed with these positions because I wanted to be a Good Man.
Now I’m trying to let that go and figure out what I actually believe, grounded in my values and not guilt or shame.
That’s all a long way of saying, I agree that men need to be part of feminism in more than just a nodding-along-capacity. Show men how feminism aligns with their values and give them a place to feel like they can talk about ideas and advocate beyond just repeating lines. Show us theirs place on the team where we can have a say too.
The implicit message in a lot of zero-sum feminism as I’ve heard it is “men are trash and the source of all that is wrong with the world, therefore you should give up your privilege somehow and let women do the talking.” That’s not a great way to get men on board. We’ll have an easier time creating an equal world if it’s not presented as such an us-versus-them.
I resonated so much with this comment. Thanks for sharing your experience!
“men should shut up and listen,” is a deeply flawed message because the men who need to shut up won’t listen to it and the men who listen are the ones who least deserve to be told to shut up.