Heard an interview with a senator in Alabama today after the personhood law passed stating "we need to have more babies." We will force women to be incubators and provide embryos with personhood prior to enacting social programs to actually support parents -- it is so broken and disgusting. "and tons of working-class women had to work on top of all of it," to add to this, Black women have always had to work. Always. And have always received the lowest wages for that work. White supremacist capitalistic patriarchal values are working exactly as they hoped they would. 🤮 I just picked up a new read 'Reimaging Gender Through Collaboration' and I can't wait to get into it.
Yes, that quote... puke. I'm writing a post this week on IVF and abortion and will be using it to help explain why the right wing wants to control reproduction. We need to expose their motives as much as we can!
I was recently bereaved when my BFF had twins (and a 4 and 8 year old). Her husband travelled for work a lot -- I had time, and love babies, so I spent a lot of time over there hanging out, holding a twin and chatting. It was great for both of us. I felt like I had something to DO, and she needed some help. So often, if you're the single person who didn't have kids, people give you the side eye about wanting to help. We need more communal living arrangements. Old people, little kids, stressed parents, single aunties.
Hi Jeremy! I had my daughter two years ago. We live in Spain. I also worried I would be lonely once the 24/7 little person came but have found I am not. The new feeling of closeness I have from becoming a little family is something I enjoy so much and have never had before. My partner and I make time so the other can do exercise/see a friend. Mon-Thurs can feel overwhelming, between work, nursery, therapy, dinners, playing on the floor when you are wrecked, walking the dog, going for a run. The weekends are better-we go out for food, go to the park, museum, swimming together, etc. Errands take a back seat. I do get exhausted - maybe once a week- but I remember this rhythm is not forever, and I have so much fun every day that it feels worth it.
I am also thinking about the solutions you wonder about too, though. I have started to wonder what we can do to protect our happiness considering the current big challenges for people and children. This is what I'm thinking:
- A move away from the city to the countryside. This would reduce rent and allow us to work less. It might also help us to build community, know our neighbours. More contact with nature and less obsession with phones and social networks.
- In my city there are fledgling co-living buildings for families
where 'right to lifetime rental' is the model, and also where communal activities and upkeep are the day to day.
- Part-time work, better leave, free transport for families, . We need to vote for the parties who are in favour of deceleration, welfare, labour reduction and diversification, reduced working week, etc.
I totally agree with all of your ideas! I wish more of that conversation was happening here in the U.S. It feels like we are decades behind and moving backwards. I also loved you sharing this: "My partner and I make time so the other can do exercise/see a friend." I've been thinking how I'll want that with my partner if/when we have a kid.
I’ve had friends or known of folks who’ve organized cooking and chore-sharing co-ops. Like some parents will watch the kids while other parents cook/do laundry/run errands, etc. If I have kids, I’m excited about organizing play dates that get to be social for everyone involved, but it seems like those years when kids are too little for play dates must be really, really tough. My big sister is a single mom, and she calls it “baby jail” even when someone has a partner because kiddos just need so much when they’re so little.
This is such an important topic. I wrote on it last week too. It’s very possible to build meaningful community even in America. But it takes a lot of work. So much that full time work outside of it is pretty much impossible. But it’s such a worthwhile pursuit. It’s a microcosm for all of Western life and as such, as it heals and unites it provides immense purpose and energy
If I could do it again (my kids are teens) I'd find a co-op or intentional community. It's so hard when you live far from family or don't have family that can help out. Great piece!
I'm a mom to 8 and 4.5 year old girls. Now that my kids are bigger but haven't yet gotten interested in the onslaught of activities, I feel like my head is above water. This past weekend I gathered some of my daughters friends and their moms and we cooked a bunch of food and folded laundry for a new mom. I feel like that provides real tangible support and helps all of us avoid loneliness. It feels impossible to ask for this kind of stuff so we have to offer it and fairly often. I also think this is where developing multigenerational relationships can help, people who haven't had kids yet have more energy and maybe can learn about if parenting is for them or not. Elders have perspective and can watch kids and share stories and wisdom. You're right that it's very difficult to build on your own. I feel like the aspects of culture I am trying to create will probably realistically benefit my grandchildren when they become parents. It may sound bleak, but I actually find it less overwhelming to think that what I'm trying to rebuild will take a lot of time to happen and I'm just building the foundation.
I so appreciate you sharing this! I'm going to be thinking about how to apply this as a man with my friends who are fathers. Part of the reason I wrote this piece was to fly my flag of how I feel about parenting before having kids. The fathers in my life rarely talk about what they're going through, so I really really want to encourage them too. Thank you for sharing your experience.
I really love this. The way things are now, and have been for at least the last 20 years, is not sustainable. What you're doing, both helping and modeling, is the only way through until childcare is valued in this country. I'm in the midst of writing something similar about mom mentors. Would you mind if I used you as an example or quoted you? No pressure -- Just a thought!
Sure, feel free to quote me or use as an example. For background,I started this group based on the book The Mother Daughter Project mostly because I wanted to have a really a solid group of people that could really celebrate menarche with out girls. But then I realized that creating a culture of mutual aid would be important as we hopefully traverse the next 10 years together as a group. Some of the moms have been resistant to receiving help and have declined our offer to descend on their house, but I hope we can do it for other tough times like tending to I'll parents too. I also worry about men. I feel like it is very rare for them to know important difficult things are happening for each other and if they do know to know how to mobilize and show up for each other. For example, when my husband's father was sick. I don't think his friends really knew what was going on until after he died.
Yes to all of this! Sounds like we have very similar concerns and interests. Having a group to traverse parenting and beyond, for at least the next ten years sounds like a dream. I definitely didn't have that with family far and friends moving away, and I became acutely aware of how difficult raising kids in this country is. Traveling with friends is how we get the village. Thanks and I'll let you know when I post it.
My 2-cents...every generation has its own unique challenges, so as a father of a 25-year old young man and to answer your question, I'd say that kids inherently desire to be seen, heard & understood - and if I we can do that for them, and for each other, that's a pretty good start together.
My daughter was born with only one kidney and wasn't getting enough oxygen immediately before birth (like IMMEDIATELY before, due to a medication they gave me for pain without warning me of the risk to her). So there were dozens of medical tests and procedures in her first few years of life. I didn't make enough at the job I had when I got pregnant to pay for the quality of daycare we would have felt comfortable with, even before we knew about the solitary kidney, urinary reflux, and developmental delays. Once we knew about the kidney and were trying to figure out potential causes (which were probably related to the whole being born knocked out on Stadol but no one was going to tell us that, not when they could put her through all kinds of billable invasive diagnostic procedures) anyway, the year I was prepared to take off and not earn any paycheck stretched from one year to two, then to three and five. The good news? She's 12 and her kidney function is fantastic, her ureter is repaired, she's a straight A student, has the highest reading and language test scores in her grade at every school she's attended. The bad news? I don't think I'll ever be paid for work again in my life. I'm overqualified for the jobs that might hire me regardless of being out of the workforce, I don't have a degree, the certificates I had are expired and I'd have to start from scratch to become recertified because so much has changed, and no one really has any interest in hiring a 46 year old woman who has been a stay at home mom for over a decade. If I could get an interview with a human my chances would probably increase a lot because I'm not as hopeless as it sounds on paper in person. But since almost every position is screened through hiring algorithms now... that just hasn't happened yet. And it's been several years. We really can't afford to be a one income family, but I'm not sure what to do. It doesn't help that our school district has basically started getting kids home from school (if they take the bus) between 5-7pm. We live less than 2 miles away from the school. It's too far for her to walk home everyday but I can't pick her up and even volunteer successfully. I know, I've tried. We moved her from public to private (my in-laws paid) but then again, no transportation at all available from the private school. Put her back in public school specifically for Gifted classes and the opportunity for me to work harder at finding employment, only for the busing debacle to grow even worse.
None of this is my child's fault. But I hate how she sees it makes me feel about how little value I have to society. I hate how it makes me feel on so many levels.
Thank you for sharing so vulnerably. And I'm so sorry you and your daughter went through that nightmare. I hope you're able to find meaningful work that helps pay the bills soon. I feel your resentment, exhaustion, and hopelessness in this comment, and I totally get why you would feel that way.
But this is the thing, all of that stuff either was terrifying and/or extremely frustrating but when I was doing the important stuff of getting her the diagnostic work and then surgery and then early intervention therapies I have never been less conflicted or more satisfied with what I was doing with my time. I can't say that it was the happiest continuously but there was and is so much profound joy involved in those experiences. My daughter really remembers none of it particularly well. Definitely not the most frightening times. And the friends that I made and kept during that time are still some of the people most important to me. So it's both worse than you're thinking and so much better. Some of the things that I thought would be significant factors in my life after having a child are just laughable, and not in a bad way. Just like any time you look at your younger self and feel kind of tenderly amused by how off base you were. But I totally respect people who choose to be child free because that's a valid and completely reasonable decision given the state of so much that's out of our control.
Heard an interview with a senator in Alabama today after the personhood law passed stating "we need to have more babies." We will force women to be incubators and provide embryos with personhood prior to enacting social programs to actually support parents -- it is so broken and disgusting. "and tons of working-class women had to work on top of all of it," to add to this, Black women have always had to work. Always. And have always received the lowest wages for that work. White supremacist capitalistic patriarchal values are working exactly as they hoped they would. 🤮 I just picked up a new read 'Reimaging Gender Through Collaboration' and I can't wait to get into it.
Yes, that quote... puke. I'm writing a post this week on IVF and abortion and will be using it to help explain why the right wing wants to control reproduction. We need to expose their motives as much as we can!
Also, I did not say this because I was in my feelings, but thank you for writing this and investigating your own feelings towards it!
Wow that title! Now I have to read it :)
I was recently bereaved when my BFF had twins (and a 4 and 8 year old). Her husband travelled for work a lot -- I had time, and love babies, so I spent a lot of time over there hanging out, holding a twin and chatting. It was great for both of us. I felt like I had something to DO, and she needed some help. So often, if you're the single person who didn't have kids, people give you the side eye about wanting to help. We need more communal living arrangements. Old people, little kids, stressed parents, single aunties.
I totally agree about more communal living arrangements. That's what I dream of!
Hi Jeremy! I had my daughter two years ago. We live in Spain. I also worried I would be lonely once the 24/7 little person came but have found I am not. The new feeling of closeness I have from becoming a little family is something I enjoy so much and have never had before. My partner and I make time so the other can do exercise/see a friend. Mon-Thurs can feel overwhelming, between work, nursery, therapy, dinners, playing on the floor when you are wrecked, walking the dog, going for a run. The weekends are better-we go out for food, go to the park, museum, swimming together, etc. Errands take a back seat. I do get exhausted - maybe once a week- but I remember this rhythm is not forever, and I have so much fun every day that it feels worth it.
I am also thinking about the solutions you wonder about too, though. I have started to wonder what we can do to protect our happiness considering the current big challenges for people and children. This is what I'm thinking:
- A move away from the city to the countryside. This would reduce rent and allow us to work less. It might also help us to build community, know our neighbours. More contact with nature and less obsession with phones and social networks.
- In my city there are fledgling co-living buildings for families
where 'right to lifetime rental' is the model, and also where communal activities and upkeep are the day to day.
- Part-time work, better leave, free transport for families, . We need to vote for the parties who are in favour of deceleration, welfare, labour reduction and diversification, reduced working week, etc.
I totally agree with all of your ideas! I wish more of that conversation was happening here in the U.S. It feels like we are decades behind and moving backwards. I also loved you sharing this: "My partner and I make time so the other can do exercise/see a friend." I've been thinking how I'll want that with my partner if/when we have a kid.
Love this article
Thanks, brother!
I’ve had friends or known of folks who’ve organized cooking and chore-sharing co-ops. Like some parents will watch the kids while other parents cook/do laundry/run errands, etc. If I have kids, I’m excited about organizing play dates that get to be social for everyone involved, but it seems like those years when kids are too little for play dates must be really, really tough. My big sister is a single mom, and she calls it “baby jail” even when someone has a partner because kiddos just need so much when they’re so little.
"Baby jail" encapsulates what I'm afraid of :/ I definitely hope to explore co-op situations if/when I have kids.
Just gonna leave this here. Your panic is well placed. American parenthood is a dumpster fire.
https://open.substack.com/pub/sarapetersen/p/the-scariest-story-youll-ever-hear?r=9tyso&utm_medium=ios
Thanks. Just subscribed.
This is such an important topic. I wrote on it last week too. It’s very possible to build meaningful community even in America. But it takes a lot of work. So much that full time work outside of it is pretty much impossible. But it’s such a worthwhile pursuit. It’s a microcosm for all of Western life and as such, as it heals and unites it provides immense purpose and energy
Totally agree!
If I could do it again (my kids are teens) I'd find a co-op or intentional community. It's so hard when you live far from family or don't have family that can help out. Great piece!
Thanks, Jo-Ann!
I'm a mom to 8 and 4.5 year old girls. Now that my kids are bigger but haven't yet gotten interested in the onslaught of activities, I feel like my head is above water. This past weekend I gathered some of my daughters friends and their moms and we cooked a bunch of food and folded laundry for a new mom. I feel like that provides real tangible support and helps all of us avoid loneliness. It feels impossible to ask for this kind of stuff so we have to offer it and fairly often. I also think this is where developing multigenerational relationships can help, people who haven't had kids yet have more energy and maybe can learn about if parenting is for them or not. Elders have perspective and can watch kids and share stories and wisdom. You're right that it's very difficult to build on your own. I feel like the aspects of culture I am trying to create will probably realistically benefit my grandchildren when they become parents. It may sound bleak, but I actually find it less overwhelming to think that what I'm trying to rebuild will take a lot of time to happen and I'm just building the foundation.
I so appreciate you sharing this! I'm going to be thinking about how to apply this as a man with my friends who are fathers. Part of the reason I wrote this piece was to fly my flag of how I feel about parenting before having kids. The fathers in my life rarely talk about what they're going through, so I really really want to encourage them too. Thank you for sharing your experience.
I really love this. The way things are now, and have been for at least the last 20 years, is not sustainable. What you're doing, both helping and modeling, is the only way through until childcare is valued in this country. I'm in the midst of writing something similar about mom mentors. Would you mind if I used you as an example or quoted you? No pressure -- Just a thought!
Sure, feel free to quote me or use as an example. For background,I started this group based on the book The Mother Daughter Project mostly because I wanted to have a really a solid group of people that could really celebrate menarche with out girls. But then I realized that creating a culture of mutual aid would be important as we hopefully traverse the next 10 years together as a group. Some of the moms have been resistant to receiving help and have declined our offer to descend on their house, but I hope we can do it for other tough times like tending to I'll parents too. I also worry about men. I feel like it is very rare for them to know important difficult things are happening for each other and if they do know to know how to mobilize and show up for each other. For example, when my husband's father was sick. I don't think his friends really knew what was going on until after he died.
Yes to all of this! Sounds like we have very similar concerns and interests. Having a group to traverse parenting and beyond, for at least the next ten years sounds like a dream. I definitely didn't have that with family far and friends moving away, and I became acutely aware of how difficult raising kids in this country is. Traveling with friends is how we get the village. Thanks and I'll let you know when I post it.
My 2-cents...every generation has its own unique challenges, so as a father of a 25-year old young man and to answer your question, I'd say that kids inherently desire to be seen, heard & understood - and if I we can do that for them, and for each other, that's a pretty good start together.
Thanks, Randal!
My daughter was born with only one kidney and wasn't getting enough oxygen immediately before birth (like IMMEDIATELY before, due to a medication they gave me for pain without warning me of the risk to her). So there were dozens of medical tests and procedures in her first few years of life. I didn't make enough at the job I had when I got pregnant to pay for the quality of daycare we would have felt comfortable with, even before we knew about the solitary kidney, urinary reflux, and developmental delays. Once we knew about the kidney and were trying to figure out potential causes (which were probably related to the whole being born knocked out on Stadol but no one was going to tell us that, not when they could put her through all kinds of billable invasive diagnostic procedures) anyway, the year I was prepared to take off and not earn any paycheck stretched from one year to two, then to three and five. The good news? She's 12 and her kidney function is fantastic, her ureter is repaired, she's a straight A student, has the highest reading and language test scores in her grade at every school she's attended. The bad news? I don't think I'll ever be paid for work again in my life. I'm overqualified for the jobs that might hire me regardless of being out of the workforce, I don't have a degree, the certificates I had are expired and I'd have to start from scratch to become recertified because so much has changed, and no one really has any interest in hiring a 46 year old woman who has been a stay at home mom for over a decade. If I could get an interview with a human my chances would probably increase a lot because I'm not as hopeless as it sounds on paper in person. But since almost every position is screened through hiring algorithms now... that just hasn't happened yet. And it's been several years. We really can't afford to be a one income family, but I'm not sure what to do. It doesn't help that our school district has basically started getting kids home from school (if they take the bus) between 5-7pm. We live less than 2 miles away from the school. It's too far for her to walk home everyday but I can't pick her up and even volunteer successfully. I know, I've tried. We moved her from public to private (my in-laws paid) but then again, no transportation at all available from the private school. Put her back in public school specifically for Gifted classes and the opportunity for me to work harder at finding employment, only for the busing debacle to grow even worse.
None of this is my child's fault. But I hate how she sees it makes me feel about how little value I have to society. I hate how it makes me feel on so many levels.
Thank you for sharing so vulnerably. And I'm so sorry you and your daughter went through that nightmare. I hope you're able to find meaningful work that helps pay the bills soon. I feel your resentment, exhaustion, and hopelessness in this comment, and I totally get why you would feel that way.
But this is the thing, all of that stuff either was terrifying and/or extremely frustrating but when I was doing the important stuff of getting her the diagnostic work and then surgery and then early intervention therapies I have never been less conflicted or more satisfied with what I was doing with my time. I can't say that it was the happiest continuously but there was and is so much profound joy involved in those experiences. My daughter really remembers none of it particularly well. Definitely not the most frightening times. And the friends that I made and kept during that time are still some of the people most important to me. So it's both worse than you're thinking and so much better. Some of the things that I thought would be significant factors in my life after having a child are just laughable, and not in a bad way. Just like any time you look at your younger self and feel kind of tenderly amused by how off base you were. But I totally respect people who choose to be child free because that's a valid and completely reasonable decision given the state of so much that's out of our control.